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 I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like

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Claire Anderson

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Posts : 30

PostSubject: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:18 pm

Ok so, first of all, thank you for taking your time for reading this. I must warn you first thing first, this is going to be quite long, so please brace yourselves.
So, earlier today I made this:

http://fairytailreborn.forumotion.com/t100-feel-the-heat-claire-s-starting-spells

It is my list of starting spells, but it is not just that: it is also an explanation of the core mechanic I want to build my character around. Unfortunately, said core mechanic didn't sit well with the staff, who objected to the way such a system blurred the line between buffs and offensive spells, allowing me to grant my spells effects they simply shouldn't have, at such a low rank. At LeeAnn's suggestion, I am therefore starting this topic to discuss my idea, and the train of thought that lead to it, with all of you, staffers and regular users alike, in the hope that we can devise an alternative together. An alternative that can respect the original spirit of my idea, make it possible for all users to understand what it is about (thus preventing potential openings for godmoding), and address the instances of the staffers in a way that can leave everyone satisfied. I am splitting this post into sections, using the SPOILER code, to avoid turning it in a ridiculous wall of text.

PREMISE:
 

THE TRAIN OF THOUGHT:
 

THE IDEA:
 

STAFF OBJECTIONS AND ALTERNATIVES:
 

In conclusion: do you think that my current spells could be salvaged with just minor changes? Do you think that the alternative I came up with is a good one? Do you have a different alternative in mind you want to suggest? Do you think that the "points management" idea as a whole cannot work in this environment, and needs to be scrapped? Do you think I am just an attention whore who is wasting everybody's time with this ridiculously long post?
Whatever your opinion is, I am interested in hearing it. I have been roleplaying for 12 years, and I have learned that you never stop improving, and that there is only one way to improve: by listening to other people's feedback and ideas. I therefore genuinely like listening to what other people have to say so please, let me hear your opinions and help me improve. I am not afraid of brutal honesty, so feel free to go all out. Thank you for your time.
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Videns

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PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:17 pm

Hey there, I'm only going to answer a few questions here.

1. You mentioned how is the first episode of the show that Natsu could destroy whole city blocks. I'd like to address this first.
Firstly, this is a kind of non-cannon ft rp site where everything is not as it is like in the anime, for good reasons.
Secondly, if you recall, flashbacks to Natsu's past indicate that his original moves (roar, iron fist) were far far weaker, "barley even capible of starting a fire". This indicates or atleast suggests that Natsu trained himself and his spells so they would be stronger, which is something we may introduce later.

2.Your ideas could be revived. Really I like the idea, but the things you were doing at E rank were stuff that hadn't even been written down on the site yet. Me may introduce something like your spells but this early on what you were trying to do was too op at this point. Later on maybe but at this stage you'd be lucky to light your own fire xD.

Really that's all I have time to mention as those points stood out for me while skimming through thus. I'll edit this woth more answers and suggestions later.
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Claire Anderson

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PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:36 pm

@Videns wrote:
the things you were doing at E rank were stuff that hadn't even been written down on the site yet. Me may introduce something like your spells but this early on what you were trying to do was too op at this point.

I am just going to address this bit for now, and say this: I understand this part. Which is why I said, "please help me fidn alternatives". The Heat Levels could do different things, or a different system could be adopted: my ultimate goal is to find a solution that is fine with staffers, doesn't cause problems to other players, and still solves those two problms (lack of strategy, power creep). I figured that, with everyone's help, we can do just that :)
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L-Sha

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Character sheet
Name: Lilynette Gold (L-Sha)
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Mana:
0/0  (0/0)

PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:44 am

Alright. I read about this in CB Archives, look over the spells and other info. I give my take on it even if I'm not a staff member.

I wouldn't call your Heat Ranks a buff. Since buffing is raising a stat and your Heat Ranks don't increase any stat, they 'modifiy' a spell. If anything I would say your Heat Ranks are more like enchantments. Instead of enchanting an item, you are enchanting your spells in this case.

Now I don't have any problems with your current setup for Heat Ranks as long as your Heat Ranks follow the rules of for enchantment. I say your spells just need some tweaks here and there.

Though I'm curious about one thing about Heat Ranks. When you gain a Heat Rank does it last for an entire thread or can a Heat Rank be lost if it not use in a 'X' amount of post? Your Heat Ranks reminds me Gaige's Anarchy Skill in Borderlands 2.
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Claire Anderson

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Posts : 30

PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:56 am

@L-Sha wrote:
Your Heat Ranks reminds me Gaige's Anarchy Skill in Borderlands 2.

That was actually one of my inspirations :O
And yeah the idea is that, once gained, the Heat Levels remain until used. I just thought that putting an "expiration date" on them would make it too difficult to keep track of everything. Of course, this does poses the problem of a virtually endless source of, as you called them, "enchantments", so I came up with the Burn Out status to compensate.

As for your idea of threating these effects as the enchantments: that works with me, but the crux of the issue is that, regardless of what these Heat Levels are considered to be, the staffers do not approve of how they grant extra effects to spells, because they cause my spells to become simply too powerful for their ranks... Which is why I had come up with the idea of using them for something else (I.E., the "ammo" idea). I would actually prefer to go with your idea, but this poses the problem of finding possible added effects these "enchantments" would grant, that are ok with the staff. Because the current ones simply are not. Which, again, I have no intention of contesting.
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Claire Anderson

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Posts : 30

PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:32 am

Something I would really need to have clarified, in order to try and make some progresses here: we know by now that the staff did not like the whole "extra effects" thing... But HOW MANY of them didn't they like? I mean, is the "extra effects" concept wrong in general, or are there only a few spells that are not ok? And in the second case, which ones? Asking because I want to try and make some serious step towards revamping this... And if there is even one spell that is ok as it currently is (or could be ok with minimal changes), that would be a good place to start.
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Videns

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PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:38 am

Here:
 

This is what is wrong,  to me atleast
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Claire Anderson

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PostSubject: Re: I still can't feel the heat quite as much as I would like   Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:08 am

...mmm...

Well Videns, assuming that your opinion is shared by the rest of the staff (I shall work under this assumption, as I don't see any reason why anyone would disagree), I must say your post helped a great deal in clarifying things.

Basically, what you are saying is that, at the end of the day, the crux of the issue lies with ranks: you staffers are not willing to allow one spell of a given rank to ever be any stronger than another spell of the same rank. If it is stated in the rules that, for example, a D-rank spell can inflict a certain damage and have a certain AoE, that's all any given D-rank spell can do, and in no case there can ever be a spell of that rank that does more than that. I thought that variable levels of "extra edge" would be accepted, considering that they come at the cost of spending up to 3 turns doing nothing (which means, the opponent can attack you at their leisure), but evidently I was wrong.

This being the case, the whole "points management" system loses significance, no matter what use I find for said points. If a spell at Heat Level 3 can only be as strong as any other spell of its rank, then it means that the same spell at Heat Level 0 through 2 would have to be WEAKER than any other spell of its rank, which in turn means, implementing this system would achieve nothing but to make my entire moveset weaker with no upside. At this point, might as well scratch the whole thing. If, no matter what are the additional costs or the long-term drawbacks, a spell can never be allowed to stray from the the basic scheme even by a little, then there is no point in implementing any additional mechanic or system.

Welp, sorry for wasting everyone's time. This topic can be considered answered now.
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